Passages similar to: Book of Thomas the Contender — II. Dialogue between Thomas and the Savior
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Book of Thomas the Contender
II. Dialogue between Thomas and the Savior (2)
Now Thomas said to the lord, "Therefore I beg you to tell me what I ask you before your ascension, and when I hear from you about the hidden things, then I can speak about them. And it is obvious to me that the truth is difficult to perform before men." The savior answered, saying, "If the things that are visible to you are obscure to you, how can you hear about the things that are not visible? If the deeds of the truth that are visible in the world are difficult for you to perform, how indeed, then, shall you perform those that pertain to the exalted height and to the pleroma which are not visible? And how shall you be called 'laborers'? In this respect you are apprentices, and have not yet received the height of perfection." Now Thomas answered and said to the savior, "Tell us about these things that you say are not visible, [but are] hidden from us." The savior said, "[Every human] body, [like] the the beasts, is begotten [irational]. Doesn't it appear like [a creature erect] [among other creatures? For] this very reason, those that are above [do not appear among] things that are visible, but they are visible in their own root, and it is their fruit that nourishes them. But these visible bodies survive by devouring creatures similar to them with the result that the bodies change. Now that which changes will decay and perish, and has no hope of life from then on, since that body is bestial. So just as the body of the beasts perishes, so also will these formations perish. Do they not derive from intercourse like that of the beasts? If it, too derives from intercourse, how will it beget anything different from beasts? So, therefore, you are babes until you become perfect."
Thus God's judgment against them was just, because they did not wait for his will. But birth is holy. By it were made the world, the existences, the n...
(103) But if nature led them, like the irrational animals, to procreation, yet they were impelled to do it more quickly than. was proper because they were still young and had been led away by deceit. Thus God's judgment against them was just, because they did not wait for his will. But birth is holy. By it were made the world, the existences, the natures, the angels, powers, souls, the commandments, the law, the gospel, the knowledge of God. And "all flesh is grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, the flower falls; but the word of the Lord abides" which anoints the soul and unites it with the spirit. Without the body how could the divine plan for us in the Church achieve its end? Surely the Lord himself, the head of the Church, came in the flesh, though without form and beauty, to teach us to look upon the formless and incorporeal nature of the divine Cause. "For a tree of life" says the prophet, "grows by a good desire," teaching that desires which are in the living Lord are good and pure.
This is the solution of the seventh repentance of Pistis Sophia. Amēn, amēn, I say unto you: All generations of the world shall bless you on earth, be...
(4) And when Jesus had heard the words of Thomas, he said unto him: "Well said, Thomas, and finely. This is the solution of the seventh repentance of Pistis Sophia. Amēn, amēn, I say unto you: All generations of the world shall bless you on earth, because I have revealed this unto you and ye have received, of my spirit and have become understanding and spiritual, understanding what I say. And hereafter will I fill you full with the whole light and the whole power of the spirit, so that ye may understand from now on all which shall be said unto you and which ye shall see. Yet a little while and I will speak with you concerning the height without within and within without."
Chapter 8: Of the Creation of the Creatures, and of the Springing up of every growing Thing; as also of the Stars and Elements, and of the Original of the a Substance of this World. (35)
Now I shall fall into the School of the Master in his uPontificalibus, who will ask out of what the Beasts, Fowls, Fishes, and Worms were made; for...
(35) Now I shall fall into the School of the Master in his uPontificalibus, who will ask out of what the Beasts, Fowls, Fishes, and Worms were made; for he will have it, that all of them were made out of the Earth, and will prove it out of Moses, and he understands as much of Moses as of Paradise, which he will have to be altogether corporeal. Therefore there is a gross Deadness in the Understanding; and though I write plain enough, yet I shall be still dumb to that deadened Soul which is void of Understanding, and yet I cannot help it; for it is said, You must be born anew, if you will see the Kingdom of God. Would you know [out of what the Beasts are made,] then lay aside your Bonnet of Pride that is in your Mind, and walk along into the paradisical Garden of Roses, and there you shall find an Herb; if you eat of it, your Eyes will be opened, so that you shall see and know what Moses has wrote.
"It is not well what our creatures, our works say; they know all, the large and the small," they said. And so the Forefathers held counsel again. "Wha...
(5) But the Creator and the Maker did not hear this with pleasure. "It is not well what our creatures, our works say; they know all, the large and the small," they said. And so the Forefathers held counsel again. "What shall we do with them now? Let their sight reach only to that which is near; let them see only a little of the face of the earth! It is not well what they say. Perchance, are they not by nature simple creatures of our making? Must they also be gods? And if they do not reproduce and multiply when it will dawn, when the sun rises? And what if they do not multiply?" So they spoke. "Let us check a little their desires, because it is not well what we see. Must they perchance be the equals of ourselves, their Makers, who can, see afar, who know all and see all?" Thus spoke the Heart of Heaven, Huracán, Chipi-Caculhá, Raxa-Caculhá, Tepeu, Gucumatz, the Forefathers, Xpiyacoc, Xmucané, the Creator and the Maker. Thus they spoke, and immediately they changed the nature of their works, of their creatures.
Chapter 26: Of the Feast of Pentecost. Of the Sending of the Holy Spirit to his Apostles, and the Believers. The Holy Gate of the Divine Power. (7)
But thus all Generations shall see him and know him, and the Unbelieving shall weep and wail, that they went so out of their Flesh and Blood into anot...
(7) And now if we will speak of the Glorification of Christ, and of his Body, which he visibly (and in that Form in which he had conversed upon Earth) ascended with, then we must say, that as the Love of the Heart of God has reconciled the Anger of the Father, and holds it as it were captive in it, so also the Holy Ternary has comprehended the hard palpable Body of Christ, viz. the Kingdom of this World, as if it was wholly swallowed up, whereas it is not swallowed up, but the Source of this World is destroyed in Death, and the Holy Ternary has put on the Body of Christ, not as a Garment, but virtually [or powerfully] in the Essences; and he is as it were swallowed up (to our Apprehension and Sight) and yet is really, and shall come again at the last Judgment-Day, and manifest himself in his own Body which he had here, that all may see him, be they good or bad; and he shall also come in the same Form to keep the Judgment of the Separation, for in his divine glorified Form we cannot behold him, before we be glorified, especially the Wicked. But thus all Generations shall see him and know him, and the Unbelieving shall weep and wail, that they went so out of their Flesh and Blood into another Source [or Condition,] when they should and might in their own Essences have put on God, and yet put on the Kingdom of the Fierceness of the Anger of God with the Devils, and let the same into the Essences of their Souls, and caused themselves to perish.
Chapter 18: Of the promised Seed of the Woman, and Treader upon the Serpent. And of Adam 's and Eve 's going forth out of Paradise, or the Garden in Eden. Also of the Curse of God, how he cursed the Earth for the Sin of Man. (36)
No; but the Word, which God spoke in Paradise to Adam and Eve, concerning the Treader upon the Serpent, (which imaged [or imprinted] itself in the Doo...
(36) But the Reader must not here understand it, as if the Word for this Incarnation at this Time did first come down, out of the highest Heaven above the Stars, hither beneath, and became Man, as the World teaches in Blindness. No; but the Word, which God spoke in Paradise to Adam and Eve, concerning the Treader upon the Serpent, (which imaged [or imprinted] itself in the Door of the Light of Life, standing in the Center of the Gate of Heaven, and waiting perceptibly in the Minds of the holy Men, even till this Time) that same Word is become Man; and that same divine Word is again entered into the Virgin of the divine Wisdom, which was given to the Soul of Adam near the Word, to be a Light, and a i Handmaid as to the Word.
Chapter 19: Concerning the Created Heaven, and the Form of the Earth, and of the Water, as also concerning Light and Darkness. Concerning Heaven. (37)
Therefore we can neither see nor comprehend the holy angels; for the outermost birth of their body is incomprehensible to the outermost birth or genit...
(37) Therefore we can neither see nor comprehend the holy angels; for the outermost birth of their body is incomprehensible to the outermost birth or geniture of this world.
In what follows, in which you think that ignorance and deception about these things are impiety and impurity, and in which you exhort us to the true...
(1) In what follows, in which you think that ignorance and deception about these things are impiety and impurity, and in which you exhort us to the true developement of these particulars, is not, indeed, attended with any ambiguity, but is acknowledged by all men. For who will not grant that the science which apprehends real being, is most adapted to a divine cause, but that ignorance which is hurried along to nonbeing, since it is most remote from a divine cause, falls off from truly existing forms? Since, however, what is said by you is not sufficient, I will add what is wanting; and because what you assert is rather philosophical and logical, than conformable to the efficacious art of priests, on this account I think it is necessary to say something more theurgical about these particulars.
Chapter 4: Of the creation of the Holy Angels. An Instruction or open Gate of Heaven. (44)
You must not think that in the divine pomp there come forth beasts, worms and other creatures in flesh, as in this world they do: No; but I mean only...
(44) You must not think that in the divine pomp there come forth beasts, worms and other creatures in flesh, as in this world they do: No; but I mean only the wonderful proportion, power, virtue and comeliness of feature in them.
Chapter 21: Of the Cainish, and of the Abellish Kingdom; how they are both in one another. Also of their Beginning, Rise, Essence, and Purpose; and then of their last Exit. Also of the Cainish Antichristian Church, and then of the Abellish true Christian Church; how they are both in one another, and are very difficult to be known [asunder.] Also of the Variety of Arts, States, and Orders of this World. Also of the Office of Rulers [or Magistrates,] and their Subjects; how there is a good and divine Ordinance in them all, as also a false, evil, and devilish one. Where the Providence of God is seen in all Things; and the Devil 's Deceit, Subtilty, and Malice, [is seen also] in all Things. (23)
Now consider what thou lettest into thy Mind by thy Senses, for thou hast in each Kingdom a Maker, which there makes [an Image of] whatsoever thou...
(23) Now consider what thou lettest into thy Mind by thy Senses, for thou hast in each Kingdom a Maker, which there makes [an Image of] whatsoever thou layest into the Scales, by the Senses; for all lies in the Making [or Formation,] and thou art (in this Body) a Field [Ground or Soil;] thy Mind is the Sower, and the three Principles are the Seed; what thy Mind sows, the Body of that grows, and that thou shalt reap to thyself, and so when the earthly Field or Soil breaks, then the new-grown Body stands in [its] Perfection, whether it be grown in the Kingdom of Heaven, or in the Kingdom of Hell.
Let us then, in the next place, direct our attention to that which accords with what has been before said, and with our twofold condition of being....
(1) Let us then, in the next place, direct our attention to that which accords with what has been before said, and with our twofold condition of being. For there is a time when we become wholly soul, are out of the body, and sublimely revolve on high, in conjunction with all the immaterial Gods. And there is also a time when we are bound in the testaceous body, are detained by matter, and are of a corporeal-formed nature. Again, therefore, there will be a twofold mode of worship. For one mode, indeed, will be simple, incorporeal, and pure from all generation, and this mode pertains to undefiled souls. But the other is filled with bodies, and every thing of a material nature, and is adapted to souls which are neither pure nor liberated from all generation. We must admit, therefore, that there are twofold species of sacrifices; one kind, indeed, pertaining to men who are entirely purified, which, as Heraclitus says, rarely happens to one man, or to a certain easily to be numbered few of mankind; but the other kind, being material and corporeal-formed, and consisting in mutation, is adapted to souls that are still detained by the body.
Tat: [Now] in the General Sermons, father, thou didst speak in riddles most unclear, conversing on Divinity; and when thou saidst no man could e'er...
(1) Tat: [Now] in the General Sermons, father, thou didst speak in riddles most unclear, conversing on Divinity; and when thou saidst no man could e'er be saved before Rebirth, thy meaning thou didst hide. Further, when I became thy Suppliant, in Wending up the Mount, after thou hadst conversed with me, and when I longed to learn the Sermon (Logos) on Rebirth (for this beyond all other things is just the thing I know not), thou saidst, that thou wouldst give it me - "when thou shalt have become a stranger to the world". Wherefore I got me ready and made the thought in me a stranger to the world-illusion. And now do thou fill up the things that fall short in me with what thou saidst would give me the tradition of Rebirth, setting it forth in speech or in the secret way. I know not, O Thrice-greatest one, from out what matter and what womb Man comes to birth, or of what seed.
This is the purport of that rule of our Mysteries: Nothing Divulged to the Uninitiate: the Supreme is not to be made a common story, the holy things...
(11) This is the purport of that rule of our Mysteries: Nothing Divulged to the Uninitiate: the Supreme is not to be made a common story, the holy things may not be uncovered to the stranger, to any that has not himself attained to see. There were not two; beholder was one with beheld; it was not a vision compassed but a unity apprehended. The man formed by this mingling with the Supreme must- if he only remember- carry its image impressed upon him: he is become the Unity, nothing within him or without inducing any diversity; no movement now, no passion, no outlooking desire, once this ascent is achieved; reasoning is in abeyance and all Intellection and even, to dare the word, the very self; caught away, filled with God, he has in perfect stillness attained isolation; all the being calmed, he turns neither to this side nor to that, not even inwards to himself; utterly resting he has become very rest. He belongs no longer to the order of the beautiful; he has risen beyond beauty; he has overpassed even the choir of the virtues; he is like one who, having penetrated the inner sanctuary, leaves the temple images behind him- though these become once more first objects of regard when he leaves the holies; for There his converse was not with image, not with trace, but with the very Truth in the view of which all the rest is but of secondary concern.
There, indeed, it was scarcely vision, unless of a mode unknown; it was a going forth from the self, a simplifying, a renunciation, a reach towards contact and at the same time a repose, a meditation towards adjustment. This is the only seeing of what lies within the holies: to look otherwise is to fail.
Things here are signs; they show therefore to the wiser teachers how the supreme God is known; the instructed priest reading the sign may enter the holy place and make real the vision of the inaccessible.
Even those that have never found entry must admit the existence of that invisible; they will know their source and Principle since by principle they see principle and are linked with it, by like they have contact with like and so they grasp all of the divine that lies within the scope of mind. Until the seeing comes they are still craving something, that which only the vision can give; this Term, attained only by those that have overpassed all, is the All-Transcending.
It is not in the soul's nature to touch utter nothingness; the lowest descent is into evil and, so far, into non-being: but to utter nothing, never. When the soul begins again to mount, it comes not to something alien but to its very self; thus detached, it is not in nothingness but in itself; self-gathered it is no longer in the order of being; it is in the Supreme.
There is thus a converse in virtue of which the essential man outgrows Being, becomes identical with the Transcendent of Being. The self thus lifted, we are in the likeness of the Supreme: if from that heightened self we pass still higher- image to archetype- we have won the Term of all our journeying. Fallen back again, we awaken the virtue within until we know ourselves all order once more; once more we are lightened of the burden and move by virtue towards Intellectual-Principle and through the Wisdom in That to the Supreme.
This is the life of gods and of the godlike and blessed among men, liberation from the alien that besets us here, a life taking no pleasure in the things of earth, the passing of solitary to solitary.
Chapter 21: Of the Cainish, and of the Abellish Kingdom; how they are both in one another. Also of their Beginning, Rise, Essence, and Purpose; and then of their last Exit. Also of the Cainish Antichristian Church, and then of the Abellish true Christian Church; how they are both in one another, and are very difficult to be known [asunder.] Also of the Variety of Arts, States, and Orders of this World. Also of the Office of Rulers [or Magistrates,] and their Subjects; how there is a good and divine Ordinance in them all, as also a false, evil, and devilish one. Where the Providence of God is seen in all Things; and the Devil 's Deceit, Subtilty, and Malice, [is seen also] in all Things. (63)
Then thou has great Honour for thy Shame. And therefore why art thou so sad? Lift up thyself out of thy wild Beast, Hunter, or Persecutor, as a fair...
(63) Then thou has great Honour for thy Shame. And therefore why art thou so sad? Lift up thyself out of thy wild Beast, Hunter, or Persecutor, as a fair Flower springs out of the Earth. O dost thou suppose, thou wild Beast, that my Spirit is mad, that it so little esteemed thee? Thou sayest I am indeed thy Beast, yet thou art born out of me; if I had not grown forth, thou hadst not been neither. Hearken thou my Beast, I am greater than thou; when thou wast to be, there I was thy Master- framer; my Essences are out of the Root of the Eternity, but thou art from this World, and thou breakest [or corruptest,] but I live in my Source [or Quality] eternally; therefore am I much nobler than thou; thou livest in the fierce [wrathful] Source, but I will put strong fierce Property into the Light, into the eternal Joy; my Works stand in Power, and thine remain in the Figure; when I shall once be released from thee, then I shall take thee no more to be my Beast again, but [I will take] my new Body which I brought forth in thee, in thy deepest Root of the holy Element. I will no more have thy rough Productions of the four Elements, Death swallows thee up. But I spring and grow out of thee, with my new Body, as a Flower out of the Root; I will forget thee. For the Glory of God (which cursed thee together with the Earth) has grafted my Root again in his Son, and my Body grows in the holy Element before God. Therefore thou art but my wild Beast, which dost plague me, and make me sick here, upon which the Devil rides, as upon his accursed Horse; and although the World scorn thee, I regard not that, it does that for my Sake; and yet it cannot see me, neither can it know me. And why then is it so mad? It cannot murder me, for I am not in it.
Chapter XI: Abstraction From Material Things Necessary in Order to Attain To the True Knowledge of God. (11)
If, then, abstracting all that belongs to bodies and things called incorporeal, we cast ourselves into the greatness of Christ, and thence advance...
(11) If, then, abstracting all that belongs to bodies and things called incorporeal, we cast ourselves into the greatness of Christ, and thence advance into immensity by holiness, we may reach somehow to the conception of the Almighty, knowing not what He is, but what He is not. And form and motion, or standing, or a throne, or place, or right hand or left, are not at all to be conceived as belonging to the Father of the universe, although it is so written.
Chapter 4: Of the true Eternal Nature, that is, of the numberless and endless generating of the Birth of the eternal Essence, which is the Essence of all Essences; out of which were generated, born, and at length created, this World, with the Stars and Elements, and all whatsoever moves, stirs, or lives therein. The open Gate of the great Depth. (3)
He continually puts the monstrous Shape or Form into our Thoughts, as he did into our Mother Eve, which she gazed too much upon, and by her representi...
(3) For it is lamentable, that since the fall of Adam, we should be so continually cheated and befooled by the Devil, to think that we are not the Children of God, nor of his Essence. He continually puts the monstrous Shape or Form into our Thoughts, as he did into our Mother Eve, which she gazed too much upon, and by her representing it in her Imagination, she became a Child of this World, wholly naked and vain, and void of Understanding: And so he does to us also still continually; he would bring us into another Image, as he did Eve, that we might be ashamed to appear in the Presence of the Light and Power of God, as Adam and Eve were, when they hid themselves behind the Trees, (that is, behind the monstrous Shape or Form,) when the Lord appeared in the Center of the Birth of their Lives, and said, Where art thou, Adam? And he said, I am naked, and am afraid; which was nothing else, but that his Belief [or Faith] and Knowledge of the Holy God was put out; for he beheld the monstrous Shape which he had made to himself by his Imagination and Lust, by the Devil's [Instigation,] Representation, and false Persuading, to eat of the third Principle wherein Corruption was.
Chapter 70 (Sophia singeth another song of praise)
It came to pass then when the First Mystery had heard Thomas say these words, that he said unto him: "Well said, finely, Thomas, blessed one. This is...
(1) It came to pass then when the First Mystery had heard Thomas say these words, that he said unto him: "Well said, finely, Thomas, blessed one. This is the solution of the song which Pistis Sophia hath uttered." And the First Mystery continued again and said unto the disciples: "And Pistis Sophia continued and sang praises unto me, saying: "'1. I sing a song unto thee; through thy commandment hast thou led me down out of the higher æon which is above, and hast led me up to the regions which are below. "'2. And again through thy commandment thou hast saved me out of the regions which are below, and through thee hast thou taken there the matter in my light-powers, and I have seen it. "'3. And thou hast scattered far from me the emanations of Self-willed which constrained me and were hostile to me, and hast bestowed power on me to loose myself from the bonds of the emanations of Adamas. "'4. And thou hast smitten the basilisk with the seven heads and cast it out with my hands and hast set me above its matter. Thou hast destroyed it, so that its seed may not raise itself up from now on. "'5. And thou Wert with me, giving me power in all this, and thy light surrounded me in all regions, and through thee hast thou made all the emanations of Self-willed powerless. "'6. For thou hast taken the power of their light from them and made straight my way to lead me out of the chaos. "'7. And thou hast removed me from the material darknesses and taken from them all my powers, from which the light had been taken. "'8. Thou hast put into them purified light and unto all my limbs, in which was no light, thou hast given purified light from the Light of the Height. "'9. And thou hast made straight the way for them [ sc. my limbs], and the light of thy face hath become for me life indestructible. "'10. Thou hast led me forth above the chaos, the region of chaos and extermination, in order that all the matters in it which are in that region, might be unloosed and all my powers be renewed in thy light, and thy light be in them all. "'11. Thou hast deposited the light of thy stream in me and I am become purified light.' "This again is the second song which Pistis Sophia hath uttered. Who then hath understood this repentance, let him come forward and speak it."
Further also, the most conspicuous fact of all theology--the God-formation of Jesus amongst us--is both unutterable by every expression and unknown...
(9) Further also, the most conspicuous fact of all theology--the God-formation of Jesus amongst us--is both unutterable by every expression and unknown to every mind, even to the very foremost of the most reverend angels. The fact indeed that. He took substance as man, we have received as a mystery, but we do not know in what manner, from virginal bloods, by a different law, beyond nature, He was formed, and how, with dry feet, having a bodily bulk and weight of matter, He marched upon the liquid and unstable substance; and so, with regard to all the other features of the super-physical physiology of Jesus. Now, we have elsewhere sufficiently spoken of these things, and they have been celebrated by our illustrious leader, in his Theological Elements, in a manner far beyond natural ability--things which that illustrious man acquired, either from the sacred theologians, or comprehended from the scientific, search of the Oracles, from manifold struggles and investigations respecting the same, or was instructed from a sort of more Divine Inspiration, not only having learnt, but having felt the pangs of things Divine, and from his sympathy with them, if I may so speak, having been perfected to their untaught and mystic union and acceptance. And that we may display, in fewest words, the many and blessed visions of his most excellent intelligence, the following are the things he says, concerning the Lord Jesus, in the Theological Elements compiled by him.
Chapter 17: Of the horrible, lamentable, and miserable Fall of Adam and Eve in Paradise. Man 's Looking-Glass. (81)
Here we see clearly, yes we feel, that God (in the Beginning) created no such Image with bestial Members for Propagation, for that which God created...
(81) Here we see clearly, yes we feel, that God (in the Beginning) created no such Image with bestial Members for Propagation, for that which God created for Eternity, that has no Shame before it. Yet also they then first perceived that they were naked; the Elements had taken Possession of them, and yet put no earthly Garment [like the Beasts hairy Skin] upon them; for the Spirit of Man was not from the Essences and Properties of the Elements, [as the Spirit of the Beasts,] but [Man] was out of the Eternal.